Blogs
Looming Shutdowns?
18 Jun. 2020
Looming Shutdowns?

No Soup For You

With the covid situation looming, the promotions that big banks have offered to try and increase spend from their consumers have been very generous and also tempting.  I only have limited access to all of the deals offered because I don’t have relationships with Citi anymore, and also don’t have some Chase cards (Sapphire Reserve, for example) that could ring the rewards bell pretty loudly.  When I saw the promotions from Amex for some annual fee based Delta and Hilton cards, I immediately had to reread the offer and fine print, as it seemed a little too good to be true.  Now with everything that has transpired, that may very well be the case.

My latest statement for my Hilton personal card closed a few weeks ago.  There are over 1 million Hilton points earned from spend during the last statement cycle.  Shortly after the statement close I logged into Hilton and the points had not posted.  A little odd I thought, but didn’t think that much of it.  Since then I’ve periodically checked my Hilton points total, and each time the final number has been the same.  I then went through past statements and looked at points totals.  Points were posting right after statements closed like clockwork.    This past one was on a rain delay, and decided to call and see what I could find out.

Bad News Bears

So earlier this week I called Hilton first to see if anything was pending.  No positive news there, and was transferred to Amex.  I asked the frontline Amex phone rep if there was any information on why points might not be being sent to Hilton.  Was there a system error?  Perhaps a possible issue with the bonus points connecting from the promotion?  “Let’s see if we can get those points expedited,” the representative said, and transferred me to another agent.  This wasn’t the path that I had in mind, as I didn’t need anything expedited, just an explanation about what was going on.  But I held the line and remained patient.

Then some bad news.  “It appears the account has been flagged and the points are being reviewed,” the next agent said.  Excessive spend and points accumulation over this past statement was the gist of the reason given.  My statement before this was also pretty substantial, with many purchases at the same stores, and for similar amounts.  That didn’t seem to raise eyebrows and points posted to Hilton immediately after that statement close date.  Anyway, there’s an investigation into the points accumulated during the last statement.  A result could be one of many possibilities.  The points earned on the last statement could mostly, or all, be forfeited.  The specific credit card could be closed or downgraded.  Then the death blow; the entire account/Amex portfolio could be closed.

There’s a post from Miles to Memories that has some data points about Hilton points being held back by Amex.  It seems to be pretty widespread.  Although this post is Hilton related, I know of several people that have had this same issue with Delta points being delayed too.  If people are buying Visa or Mastercard gift cards at supermarkets to earn higher rewards for any of the bank promotions tied to “grocery spend”, people are paying for points.  The fees from the gift cards at supermarkets aren’t cheap, and liquidation costs usually increase the out of pocket expense too.  Whether it makes sense to go that route is up to the individual and the cost per point they are comfortable with, but those fees can add up.  Also, that’s not even factoring in a person’s time, which can be substantial for many taking that path.

With that said, I’m not going to share the specifics yet about my account and spend with any of my American Express cards yet, as the “review” is still pending.  At this stage though, this isn’t a financial review.  I can login to my Amex accounts, and I haven’t been asked to furnish any documents, nor have I been notified of the review until I called in about the issue.  I have stopped spending on the cards that I was using for promotions, as it doesn’t seem to make sense when rewards may not be earned for spend.  You may want to reconsider the approach you use to earn points on these limited time promotions.

(33) (185)
  • Lee M Cardholder 4 years, 8 months ago

    Pretty impressive spend. I’d be curious to hear more about how much time a day you are spending to do this. I’m sure you won’t give away any of your secrets, but I’d be curious to know if you have found a “magical way” to hit these levels in way us mere mortals could never come up with. Do you participate in “secret societies” that pass well-guarded secrets?

    I’ve been lucky and paid out so far, but I think my days of pushing the Hilton promotion at 12x are probably numbered.

    Keep up the “travel and points” blogging. The other stuff I personally could do without, but hey it is your blog.

    0
  • COLLIN MCCLELLAN 4 years, 8 months ago

    Jeff–now that the dust has settled and we now know that Amex is not paying out the 12x are you planning to pursue any legal action or are you just going to let it go? 1M HH is a lot of points, I have about 500k that was lost. I’d like to pursue legal action but don’t want to burn a bridge with Amex since I have a lot of MR that I cash out via Schwaub

    0
    • Jeffrey @ "Million Mile Guy" 4 years, 8 months ago

      @Collin McClellan, just letting it go. A legal pursuit would lead to a shutdown IMO. If anyone purchased gift cards as part of a grocery purchase and weren’t rewarded points for that, Amex is only enforcing the terms and conditions which state just that. If someone received points for gift card purchases via Amex in the past, he/she slipped one past the goalie. Amex didn’t have to award points for that purchase, but they did. In April Amex bought 1 billion points from Hilton. It seemed logical they would pay out those points with this promotion, even with gift card buys. But that has not been the case.

      0
  • dan 4 years, 9 months ago

    MMG, seems that ppl r stunned with ur specific #s like 1MM HH pts in 1 mo; if the blog were generally state a considerable / significant spend, folks would’ve not been stunned & critical

    0
    • Jeffrey @ "Million Mile Guy" 4 years, 8 months ago

      @dan do you mean I should not have stated the 1M+ Hilton points held up? I couldn’t tell from what you wrote but you might be right. Maybe I should just keep it more vague.

      0
  • Parts Unknown 4 years, 9 months ago

    You mean you spent over $83k in one month at the grocery store and are surprised your points are being held up… Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered.

    2
  • toomanybooks 4 years, 9 months ago

    What’s your credit limit?

    0
    • Jeffrey @ "Million Mile Guy" 4 years, 9 months ago

      @toomanybooks, it’s a good question, but not saying at this time. I believe I eluded to that in the post.

      0
  • AC 4 years, 9 months ago

    Good for Amex and Hilton!! This is clearly abusive. A million points on a “personal” card, even at 12X for all of it, is $83,000 in spend! What is your limit?! Either running through business e owned or gaming the system w gift cards. In either case I’m GLAD people like you are caught. Gaming be system is basically fraud and hopefully they close your entire account.

    BTW I am a retired former corporate executive and part of the “1%”. I run $150,000 or so a year though cards and that is to support a very generous lifestyle. Seriously doubt you are legitimately running through over half that in a Month

    Quit whining and planning Amex (or Hilton). It is people like you that ruin promotions for the rest of us!!!

    -6
    • Jeffrey @ "Million Mile Guy" 4 years, 9 months ago

      @AC, I don’t find your comments compelling but I have a few questions for you. Do you support reselling products as a means to earn extra points? Do you support reselling gift cards for selling extra points? I’m curious to hear your answers. We can start there.

      1
      • Frank 4 years, 9 months ago

        “reselling” is just running a business. That’s obviously a legitimate way to earn points but then you need to pay taxes (since the points would be your “profit”).

        0
        • DP 4 years, 8 months ago

          I don’t believe that’s correct, actually. IRS treats points/cashback as a “rebate”, *not* income or profit. In all cases, even for a business.

          So if you buy a product and resell it, then your income/profit is the difference. If you lose money, no taxed profit. If you make money, you pay taxes on the profit. Either way, the points you earn on the original product purchase is simply considered a “rebate” and is never taxed.

          0
    • Load more
  • Max B 4 years, 9 months ago

    I heard some people’s points posted overnight. Did yours?

    0
    • Jeffrey @ "Million Mile Guy" 4 years, 9 months ago

      @Max B, where did you hear that? My Delta or Amex points have not posted and I check daily. In the case of Hilton it’s been a few weeks.

      0
    • Jeffrey @ "Million Mile Guy" 4 years, 9 months ago

      @Max B, where did you hear that? Mine have not posted. I’ve checked daily and it’s been a few weeks.

      0
    • dan 4 years, 9 months ago

      Max B, where did u hear / see? mine still hasn’t after more than 60 days

      0
  • dan 4 years, 9 months ago

    heck, they even retroactively reviewed spends of last yr but erroneously deducted about 6k HH pts on P2’s acct, claiming that P2 had cancelled a hilton resort stay; no pts was awarded / posted last yr for that cancelled booking, so P2 reached out to point out that error; although an amex rep last wk stated via DM that a correction will be made in 48 hrs, no correction or adj is made as of now after almost 1 wk,; presently, while a little 40k pts from grocery spend for May did post after stmt cut after 1 day last mo, 48k pts after june stmt is not yet posted after stmt. P2 now feels that the Qs about last yr’s error could likely draw attn to the acct

    0
  • cath 4 years, 9 months ago

    If you read the Supplement to the Cardmember Agreement Amex says that the poins are awarded and transfered to Hilton after the end of the billing period in which you receive them. Hilton Honor Points received from your card will be posted to your Hilton Honors account up to 12 weeks after the end of your billing cycle. – I believe this was updated a couple of ms ago.

    0
    • Jeffrey @ "Million Mile Guy" 4 years, 9 months ago

      @cath, yes I do know that, it’s just that the points in the past have posted right after statement close, and from my call they noted that ‘since there were so many points to transfer’, it is troubling

      0
  • max 4 years, 9 months ago

    So I called Amex just now and the rep says they’re reviewing my supermarket purchase on my delta card, scored close to 100k miles on my previous statement, have not posted for more than 30 days, seem to have also stopped this month’s miles as well, but I didn’t do any supermarket purchases this month. Told me to wait for 8-12 weeks, sigh.

    0
    • Jeffrey @ "Million Mile Guy" 4 years, 9 months ago

      @Max, I’d love to know how many accounts they have to review during this promotion before points post? Got to be a ton

      0
      • Max 4 years, 9 months ago

        I’m more worried about being reviewed, since I have about 1M MR points and there’s nowhere good to transfer them right now.

        0
  • Rob 4 years, 9 months ago

    I am in the same boat as most who have commented to your post. Do you think we should stop chasing the 12x or keep plugging along in hopes we don’t get shit down or get the points clawed back? Thanks for your response in advance.

    0
    • philco 4 years, 9 months ago

      Nobody outside of Amex can give you an intelligent answer and a lot of this is going to come down to your personal risk tolerance in the absence of any clear information. MMG already said what he is doing in the article “I have stopped spending on the cards that I was using for promotions, as it doesn’t seem to make sense when rewards may not be earned for spend. You may want to reconsider the approach you use to earn points on these limited time promotions.” Personally I am with him and I have redirected my spend elsewhere. I have plenty of good options so I’ll put all Amex on the back burner until this situation is clear which will likely be around the time the current limited time promotion period ends at the earliest.

      0
  • Jan Janko 4 years, 9 months ago

    A million points in one statement cycle, you say?

    Gosh, who could have ever imagined that might lead to consequences?

    You’re an idiot. This is why we can’t have nice things.

    2
    • Jeffrey @ "Million Mile Guy" 4 years, 9 months ago

      @Jan Janko, you should reconsider and thank me. If I published the actual point total, you’d really be upset!

      -2
    • BillyBaru 4 years, 9 months ago

      1m a month? I was doing that a 6x in the months and years earlier. Its not even the largest spend that I know of. Stop being small minded and cracking on a guy doing 100k a month on his Hilton Amex

      -2
  • philco 4 years, 9 months ago

    I don’t buy the Hilton as the source of this explanation because this impacts Delta and Bonvoy too. I do think return fraud may be an explanation as there was a recent indictment of two individuals who took Amex for millions of points using return fraud in part. I think there is a good chance that points will post in a couple of months.

    0
    • dan 4 years, 9 months ago

      agree with philco…. it’s not hilton holding up pts; it’s amex’s… simply hope that they release pts after 60 days

      0
  • COLLIN 4 years, 9 months ago

    I have 360k points that are currently pending as well. Kudos on getting to 1M points in a single statement, that’s some serious “grocery” spend. My statement closed on 6/10 and I can see the 360k points as earned on the monthly statement.

    I’m not sure how reliable this is but I read a DP of a person who called and asked about the delay in the points posting similar to what you did. He/she was told that the points were sent to Hilton and that Hilton put a “hold” onto the points due to the large amount and that they were concerned about returns. The fact that Amex is showing the points as earned on the monthly statement help supports this. The rep stated that the points will post after the following statement to ensure that there are not any large returns on the card.

    0
    • R 4 years, 9 months ago

      Collin,

      that DP is obviously fake. why would hilton be concerned about return fraud? they would happily make money from amex!

      yes, Amex can be concerned about return fraud as they are on the hook for the points. but considering all grocery stores refuse return on gift cards AFIK, this may not be very relevant as well. I mean you are going to ultimately dispute it with amex who can happily deny it. and they likely will.

      0
    • dan 4 years, 9 months ago

      if get denied outright even the paper stmts show pts, any recourse or may be arbitration help?

      0